time,name,content
0:03:45.0 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Good morning my father.
0:03:46.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Good morning, my son."
0:03:49.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,How are you?
0:03:50.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Oh, good back home in California after my week in the Midwest and the dogs are very happy to see me. They're getting their morning walk now."
0:03:53.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Hey.
0:03:57.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:04:02.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, okay. So looks like."
0:04:04.2 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"The kids were even happy to see me which was, which was quite nice with teenagers. I wasn't even sure if they noticed I was gone. So it was, they both came out and gave me a hug which was very touching like, did they both when I came home they both like, stop what they're doing and came out and gave me a hug."
0:04:14.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Cool. Oh.
0:04:24.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Hello. Yeah, yeah, so who gave me a hug?"
0:04:25.2 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Was phone, can you hear me?"
0:04:29.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Goodbye, both of my children, you know, stop whatever day it came out of the gate me. I was totally not expecting. I didn't even think they knew, I thought."
0:04:32.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, no."
0:04:40.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,Of course you are gone.
0:04:45.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, so but you look like you missed your dogs and your spending a lot of time with silence."
0:04:52.8 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah, great day in Minnesota."
0:04:55.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah. Oh, you were able to three the next chapter?"
0:05:03.6 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yes, I did that, it was a very short chapter, so we're always here to read, I think and he's doing the thing where he alternate, I don't know if this is delivered or just the way that the timing of, of Rockefeller's life when but he, the author seems to alternate between focusing on the family and focusing on the business. I guess that's one thing that runs for now. So I was just thinking about his biography is we spend a lot of time focusing on the family both the family of origin and his personal life."
0:05:06.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Okay.
0:05:08.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Uh-huh.
0:05:23.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:05:36.0 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Rather than just doing a pure story of the business because he thinks the two or people are clock.
0:05:40.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Both of them are equally important. Yeah, yeah."
0:05:42.6 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah. Well important but they are dependent upon each other and this is that, sorry?"
0:05:50.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:05:53.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, go ahead."
0:05:56.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Stop, like first started talking about your rating of the kids and I understand you said that is maybe they'll get."
0:06:09.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"As lots of space and, and all this new and you know, talked about kids, talked about the sibling puzzle about it."
0:06:12.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:06:19.8 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"We'll talk today. You know, the very strict religious environment Rockefeller created for his kids. Seems a bit of a doubt or on the other hand, he comes across incredibly engaged father, where he will, you know, come home for lunch and then just blow off today and hang out with his kids playing games, you know, with the photos at all with my double workaholic, a businessman."
0:06:42.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah! I think so. Yeah, he goes casing with them and all that."
0:06:48.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:06:51.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, I think, you know. Yeah, and they also did a really good thing. So they played before meals and they paid before. I think he went and played with them at night or something like that and they were younger."
0:07:03.0 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah. Yeah, and then he makes them all tied and, and earn their own money to donate for the church."
0:07:04.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:07:07.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:07:11.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"And I was gonna like senator and notice people who are in need of this more middle class Baptist church and you know, the press bullet on some money in their hands wealth."
0:07:24.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"And similarly being script list about, not, on the one hand, scripting about not discussing business on the that the other hand. You know he sees this as an extension of honoring god and like, 1.3 I think he advises the woman to save money and he goes, I apologize for that stuff from the Sabbath but you know, this is really the Lord work and this to me is at the heart of the paradox and perhaps even the tragedy a seller. He's clearly and then, and we if we pass man."
0:07:39.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:07:50.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:07:59.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:08:05.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:08:06.0 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Usually goes to prayer meetings. He, you know, donate generously et cetera."
0:08:08.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Well, yeah."
0:08:13.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,"You didn't, but he was the clerk. He was active in the church. I think we may have mentioned that in the stock, that something needs to be done."
0:08:16.2 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:08:20.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah, he wouldn't know you don't pay the church by organizing a fundraiser."
0:08:23.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, fundraiser, yeah, and then I think he put his money for us or something like that. On a side note, I thought we also emphasize that when you guys are in money, ten percent goes to gotten percent savings and the rest of it you can use which was the I think we tried to do that with you guys, right?"
0:08:50.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah, we've tried to do that. Yeah, we were doing that at one point."
0:08:56.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"And this is kind of interesting like in the money savings, a very weird thing, because what we talked about how Rockefeller had a hard time."
0:09:05.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"He's sort of inventing cap, you know, modern capitalism a long way, of course, we don't really know, I, it doesn't, I don't know enough about industrial history to know what the other, and other self-made, industrial millionaire. At this time. We're very propagate and we'll average and, Joey, it was not one of them, so, I don't know the other millionaire made their money but he seemed like he was pioneering a lot of what we consider. Well, I can send them off in capitalism but so, one of the things is that, like, for example when I was working at apple, there was this question you know, should I be evening by apple stock or should I be selling it and you know, the."
0:09:08.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah."
0:09:23.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, no."
0:09:27.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Alright.
0:09:49.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:09:56.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"The, the Montreal black or you should be saving but like what, where do you invest in your future and what does that come out of, you know? And so we decided rather than saving money, we're gonna treat the apple stock as the same and that worked out really, really well in many ways, right? And so this sort of conservative mindset this is, you know, this was a of like, on the one hand, he's very."
0:10:02.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:10:14.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:10:16.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:10:27.0 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Anyway.
0:10:31.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,So that was already frugal?
0:10:31.2 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yes. So, I'm so conflicted about like the fact that I don't live up to that contract pops up on the other way and you know, and apparently, it is, this thing about trying to, with this entrepreneurial lifestyle which is at odds with the sort of simplistic at least version. I mean, I guess the workforce Monterey which is mostly different which is may call you can save or you can give all you can, right? And the 8020, the 10101 doesn't have much embrace that."
0:10:59.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:11:08.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Investing for the future it's a good more on the conservative side.
0:11:13.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, no given this chapter, yeah, in this chapter do they mentioned that they live a very frugal lifestyle? And then I think the John Jr. said that he was waiting is sister's clothing when he was, he wasn't because, because having something."
0:11:14.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,And I'm still sort of wrestling with that.
0:11:32.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah, do it because he grew up sort of what is I guess a periodic poverty right? Cause it's dad was this while rent traveling guy who was the case you come back with large amounts of money and always came back and always had a lot of money and paid off all the debt but there were these long stretches where they were living. So you know, on, on credit you know and things like that and I think he said even John junior is done to where his sister's dresses."
0:11:37.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:11:46.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:11:50.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, tomorrow, yeah, yeah."
0:12:00.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, that's what I meant, John had to wait. Yeah, and I think you know, one of the interesting thing is it takes you know, two people to do that, right? His wife also had the same mindset even though she was recent abject poverty she was also very conservative in her pending and then her child racing."
0:12:02.4 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah, so, so I can started out very."
0:12:18.6 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,It's all.
0:12:27.6 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"But what's interesting is that they were, is that they talked about Rockefeller sister one of them he said you know, I guess maybe, maybe it was fairly well adjusted but the other one was sort of the character of this and that she like kept no serving and scrub all the places like she had a became, you know, she went to the her mother's extreme of just all she was I guess what we were stuck in the poverty spirit."
0:12:35.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yup.
0:12:40.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:12:55.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:13:02.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah. But you know, we've seen that in the world, right? And oh, man, I have friends who are really wealthy and one of their children will be wanting the well. So to say, the other one will be going the other way and saving a lot and not leaving a very lavish lifestyle. And so, I mean, every child is different, we always think that it's not your right and maybe they need to go to your, some of it may have wrapped up on them. Some of it is there one person, right?"
0:13:07.2 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Oh, yeah."
0:13:19.2 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:13:43.8 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well I think that'd be, it's obviously a combination of your role like someone will take. Like the three brothers are the most interesting to me. So John Doug Rockefeller is massively successful but, you know, not and, and charming and persuasive but not a extravagant. You know, it's, this is both of the daughter's married, these are very jolly outgoing men, very much like their father wild bill big bill and then."
0:13:52.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, well, yeah."
0:13:57.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:14:05.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:14:11.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:14:14.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:14:18.0 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"His brother Frank was the sort of reckless impetuous extravagant jovial one. And William was in the middle, literally in the middle of trying to reconcile the two and it's."
0:14:23.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah."
0:14:31.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,"But he joined, he's doing, William join the, John, right?"
0:14:37.2 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"What are you looking for? Who ran to the New York Business and it was very much a case of he, in some ways I kinda got the sense that the job that John became kind of a surrogate father to William. And that he was the one who kind of a stab. What's the context in the boundaries and William did very well by staying sort of in John shadow."
0:14:40.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:14:53.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah."
0:15:03.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:15:04.8 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"No, but the struck me so there's the most heartbreaking piece of this section for me was John's relationship with his brother Frank."
0:15:23.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:15:24.6 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Because it talks about how the they, you know Frank was you know gambling gambler propagate and what often, you know, side with John that didn't mean against you know and you know just turn on him and it ends with him like working to try and get John subpoenaed on the other hand you know they, you know he would often come back apologetic which the authors stuck in my says because you don't want me to, John, and John for his part repeatedly tried to reconcile with his brother Frank, you know even higher verification and there's the one thing that was the most I found the most poignant."
0:15:38.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah. That was the worst part. Yeah, that was the worst part. Yeah, yeah."
0:15:56.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:16:01.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:16:09.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:16:09.6 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Which was that? John hired Frank to run some shifts for him on lake Michigan and know, he, you know, didn't do a good, Frank did not do a good job of maintaining setting the week. So when John had to call on him."
0:16:39.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:16:43.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Hello. Hey, Jonathan, work, if you can't do this, I have to get someone else and he you know, bought Frank out and you know, what? It's just business and Rockefeller's pursuing kind of this a strategy of Sportster and focusing on the efficiency or whatever. It's like, well, okay, that makes per, you know, it's a bit hard for percent but what is your question blood? It's, it takes on a bit of a, a darker ten. Wait. Yeah, and."
0:16:44.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:17:01.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah."
0:17:09.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Well, what do you know, but that's a tough situation, right? You cannot, we can either way."
0:17:16.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Because you've got some, I was going to talk about this, I'm here in terms of the William."
0:17:26.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,"It worked was India. Very common especially the medical circles are a father like three. I'm still on a daughter loves it all doctor's appointment clinic, they'll work together and, and then and then it's probably in you know public situation it maybe difficult in the corporate world. Maybe difficult to have your own people in high position because one like you said it looked like your favoring them and whatever they're doing you're agreeing with them if they don't do well what do you do with them? You cannot cut the card because then that means you are kind of mean for your own blink but if you don't do that."
0:17:26.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:17:42.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:18:11.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Your business is going to go down. That's not a good a financial decision. So the tough situation either way, right?"
0:18:23.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Yeah, no it's really tough what's happening I just heard the story of the Porsche family you only support 911 the card company and, and they have this thing where they were running and designing both the Porsche company and then they we're working with the Volkswagen company and there were two grandsons. I think we're sort of competing and the elder, the middle generation data just isn't you know, hey, we're just gonna exit the business so that we can feel safe going to be told his birthday parties because there was so much Emily tension. And he was worried it was gonna turn the family apart so, we just added to this with a business."
0:18:36.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Huh.
0:18:39.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:18:59.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:19:07.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"I like the one because the post company founder and then the other one went to work for Volkswagen and came one of their celebrated executives and there was all the political entry between the companies or after but like he kept he willing to sacrifice the family business to their families ability which you know, the Silicon Valley people are reviewing like this is just insane who would do this, you know, but it's like I guess they must have really thought family was important. And the thing that struck me about this was a question they talked a lot about the temperance movement and how like a rough in one. Just did you deliver focus on abolition, you know, which was very you know, when we look back now of course you know that was very forward thinking and brilliant tomorrow and then they ship to that same exact perfect template."
0:19:10.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,Okay.
0:19:13.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:19:24.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yup.
0:19:38.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:19:43.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Well, yeah, yeah, what is, what is, what is wrong on that? Yeah, no problem."
0:19:49.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:19:51.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Controversial.
0:19:53.9 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, no."
0:20:02.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Which we can be maybe somebody on a, but we know the prohibition was basically a, a failed experiment. And you know, now like I wouldn't think about a ordering plan but I definitely can figure out the whole especially when I was with my brother-in-law. And so you know, it, it's, it is what the things that I wondered about. Was it, yeah."
0:20:04.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:20:23.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"But the only I would, I wouldn't have it come back. No, because I'm $1, I would have no problem, right."
0:20:34.1 PDT,John Prabhakar,"I grew up with a patient. So I I'll go ahead and it's not a problem support them. Alright, yeah."
0:20:34.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:20:37.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,What will happen with what?
0:20:44.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"No, I understand, but like you won't have a problem with, but you don't have a problem with me drinking alcohol. You would still have a problem with me only place."
0:20:47.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,"No, I didn't wanna mentioned that here in the right guy, I'll probably do drinking a little."
0:20:56.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,But I would go to tell you what to do your mother.
0:20:56.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"No, you too. Okay, fair enough."
0:21:04.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Right.
0:21:04.7 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah."
0:21:06.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Summary which is probably the board. But here's, I'm so this is actually, that because there, there is some tension here and the so clearly, you know, a Rockefeller was, you know, John Rockefeller was great about."
0:21:09.5 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:21:20.3 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:21:25.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,And since the version had many extraordinary benefits.
0:21:28.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, to him, to other. Yeah."
0:21:31.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Hey, hey Jay, him, you know him to him and tell him, I will certainly tell you wanna inside the fold it was a dramatic. Good, right. To be his children to be all the people who worked for him and even though I didn't meet who came over to guide and they stayed in the phone, it was great right? But the one on the outside I mean the Trumbull sort of distance up some dirt and get some of the things and."
0:21:40.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:21:46.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:21:48.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."
0:21:58.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:22:05.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"The, there's these, there's, there's, there's, there's a couple of things I've noticed in the past is that we're a little, we're like, he bought this sprawling place and he devoted it into a sense. He said he sort of established the center for homeopathic medicine is the first time I think we see his medical interest there which, which was it, was supposed to be this like resort kind of a thing. And then sales that may take it over as a family house. And then they tried to turn it into a pain club which was very weird, right? He'll invite like he's, he sent them, he's, he said, he basically said it was just set up like a, like a hotel and it of picking sprawling. So they decided to try renting it out to people."
0:22:21.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:22:36.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Whoa, I didn't remember that."
0:22:52.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Invite people to come and stay against those hell, and they're very confused when they get a bill, because they think there'll be."
0:22:55.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, I see, I don't remember that."
0:22:59.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"No, just the family as opposed to, yeah, and the kids are like the these weird, you know, we're already at all tables with black Vince rather that is a big family around the dinner table with all the three in Santa Clara and this is the thing, is that where business and family collide Rockefeller compartmental is Jason seems to be more of a curse than a blessing is that, you know, and this is the, like the last time so it was about."
0:23:09.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:23:17.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,He's.
0:23:20.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:23:25.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:23:37.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Compartmental as Asian this one, the title, I've been going with the inside out, morality inside slash out. Well because like the great thing about the Baptist when I got the tail end of this when we went to one was that they have this very missionary veal about converting people to a healthy lifestyle and and focusing on things like you know, alcohol and gambling which clearly did destroy people, right?"
0:23:54.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:24:02.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:24:04.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:24:09.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"But the solution that Rockefeller had available to him did not work. Right? So preaching at him, appreciate his brother, Frank, you know, offering him a job trying to set up a business, all the things he tried didn't actually solve the problem and it's him to actually increase deal your nation and the thing that struck me and this is an interesting question, I don't know what this would is."
0:24:26.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,Right.
0:24:41.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Have worked equally well for John D. Rockefeller, you know a religion based on, you know, upset from alcohol."
0:24:43.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"No, I don't think so. I don't think so. No, no, I mean that part maybe but I don't think Rockefeller sure not address which is not part of this loan."
0:24:51.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Okay.
0:24:57.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,No.
0:25:01.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So what do you mean by? Can you give me all of where, what kind of grace he showed?"
0:25:03.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,"His brother came back to him and he kept helping him from time to time, that's one part of it. And the other thing is said, oh, I think if I remember. Let me, let me finish."
0:25:12.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Right but I mean, I'm so sorry but my boss will, cause I mean, it's also very strong and family so I don't know if that's a really fair comparison point."
0:25:19.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,"No, but it was the family, but the thing is."
0:25:25.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"America if I heard that, I heard about them. But this man did this. It wouldn't surprise me at all."
0:25:32.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"No, no you've been. I think it open. No."
0:25:32.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"That kind of grace, you know, towards a family member who strays and come back to the fold."
0:25:43.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,"And he would've been more ruthless and business practice. I don't think I think we should drop that one. Yeah, we should drop that part. I don't think it'll be a good this long. Mostly, no, yeah."
0:25:45.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, so, so, so, so, okay we don't wanna put in that keep going."
0:25:55.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So this is a very important point. Could you use the word grace? I don't wanna talk about that. What's that mean? Okay, because what I hear not what is this is, this is the thing, it's not quite right because what the seller showed was, I was, I think a better term will be clemency. Which is that when did any so renders to you, US stuff to their surrender with good grace and rehabilitate them."
0:26:01.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,I'm ready to pay what?
0:26:26.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Right, and so and this is a very important thing. So, because the grace and bald was very much you're welcome seller had his religion whether it's standard all Baptist or whatever it's almost the things with his mind and if you embrace that religion then he would offer you clients but if you forfeited that Clements then you know it was."
0:27:01.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Like we were talking about a Scofield which I guess is actually his, what is his in-laws I forget who it was. I think one of the daughter's, one of his sister is married to me or whatever and then who can walk them through this, possibly a Pocketful story where he said I'm going to slip out from that man's rent."
0:27:22.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,Really. I don't remember that. I don't have all that.
0:27:22.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"And. Yo, yeah, if he says, we're this guy, you know, he didn't the secret deal with him with Schofield where he bought them out during the Cleveland massacre. I should know his brother, Frank was part of the Scofield. Maybe Frankenberry the Scofield. Family and so what, you know, the Schofield, you know, if he bought them out there in Cleveland massacre and then they started up another refinery and they did this a couple of times where he did make it and then he made it like a secret deal with them to the production and then that finally went to court. And that was one of the few times he got a thrown out because of this agreement to instruction and I feel for Rockefeller isn't that these are, you know, excruciating heroin situation, a Frank to rationalize in their business, you know. So he has to, there are no rule."
0:27:35.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:27:50.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:28:04.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:28:20.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Again seems very real problems until he has to break some of the other room. But you know, what happens is and, and this is where I feel a bit for Frank cause I feel like I've been in the circumstances is the people he's, you have a problem and then they have a readymade solution that they tried to fit you into, and then if you fail that they blame you."
0:28:52.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So, Rockefeller solution to everyone is everything is basically stopped drinking and work hard."
0:28:58.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"You know, that's kind of his sick and like that's a really useful religion up to a point, but the question then, what happens right? It's sort of normally good but when it fails then Rockefeller, you know, have no exceptional process for dealing with that."
0:29:19.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Well, I don't know about that or any because if I remember correct and I haven't, the right. But could you think is because he just told him to stay the night but that was not the only thing. But he also the other guy, he Frank joined with his enemies and went against them and that type of thing. Yeah, so what do you do that?"
0:29:25.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:29:40.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, yes, so."
0:29:46.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,"So, you cannot blame him for that. You cannot say what you're doing is wrong."
0:29:46.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Hi, this is, this is."
0:29:52.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So, this is an interesting question, right? So, this is the other possible title I was looking at for this section was what I call inside. It was binary morality? Is this desire to save by Mary morality fall? Yes, no good. He will do doing something I guess maybe a better time."
0:29:52.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,Frank you.
0:30:05.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,What my lunch?
0:30:08.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,Okay.
0:30:11.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Yeah, doing this. Okay."
0:30:14.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Hello. I'm doing wrong I read on our side, so I am allowing my dog to commit to that conference when I need to go find another precise and come back if I have time to do that. Well again it's like, you know, you know, this is the same."
0:30:28.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay. Okay, yeah, yeah, but the thing is there any I mean it's also a there's another thing you're sending me one. Hey Manu me twice. Shame on me. Right. So if somebody is going on, you forgive them once but the second time, you're more cautious. So very careful too."
0:30:51.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, yeah. So let's see here. This is good. This is that is a useful saying. It is definitely not sure the that phrase is not correct and Jesus, no, they're, you know, they, just very create you know, extravagant statement if my brother seems against me how many times should I forgive him?"
0:31:02.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,No.
0:31:18.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Well, yeah. I'll give him but I want to business with him again, that'd be very careful. I wouldn't make the same mistake again. I forgive ma'am and the relationship with a store but I won't go to business with them."
0:31:23.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Right.
0:31:25.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Alright. So, so this is."
0:31:32.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,But the question is the relationship actually restored. If there is no try.
0:31:38.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,"That's totally different issues, it's totally different issues. Relationship, relationship, there's nothing to do with it or doing business or any."
0:31:41.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Sold out in Florida. Okay, hold on. Pause, okay, sorry."
0:31:49.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So sorry. Okay, let's."
0:31:50.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay, I don't think so. I just see, I buy a property and give it to you. I just wonder it all the way I want. I, I'm still invite you to my business partners, has still WS my brother but I wouldn't buy another property and give it to you."
0:32:12.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,Would you do that?
0:32:14.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So, so, sorry. I have some things to say I'm not sure you're able to hear me."
0:32:20.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead and tell me what you're what saying."
0:32:22.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So do you need a moment or do you think you can actually hear what I'm going to say? Okay, so the issue is, what does it mean for relationship to be restored? And my claim is that all the essence of referring relationship is the restoration of trust."
0:32:50.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead."
0:32:52.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"You still there. Okay. Yeah, so, so, so the question is that if, what was it that was sent to me first and then you said that was totally irrelevant. So, do you see why I'm talking about trust in the context of relationship and rest of?"
0:33:08.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay, when you're done, I'll give you an example."
0:33:14.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Okay, so the big question is, is that right? If someone would be please and that'd be here does not change you know, certainly one to make a case that is not why to trust that person, reasonable question. How's the relationship truly been restored?"
0:33:38.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Okay, I'll leave it there then you can."
0:33:40.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,I don't agree with you because let's say I have a brother who can Holly.
0:33:47.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,"And he says he's giving up all hold and he comes to my house. I imagine for all the parties. Okay, I'm not gonna say when you're home because it'll be a problem, you said you don't trust him. Oh, I don't wanna know what's the problem, it's the same way if I do business with them like give up, if I still log in and, but I wouldn't make the same mistake of allowing him to fail again other business or personal line."
0:33:47.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:33:50.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:33:55.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Hello.
0:34:02.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Alright. So the, so the things that you do."
0:34:19.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,How would you say the wrong?
0:34:19.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Okay, so that's an interesting phrase. Well, so here's the thing, right? So, there's a, I think there's a difference between so what we'll do here is paternalism I will not allow him to fail."
0:34:22.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:34:39.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,Because I know him.
0:34:42.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"I didn't know if there something any, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to pay with my brother and my uncle or somebody else like that. I'm not gonna put them in a chance to pay. If I can help it. You think it was wrong."
0:34:58.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, I don't know that. How are you feeling at the moment?"
0:35:02.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, I feel good."
0:35:05.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Okay, because I, I'm Cynthia a little bit of a multiple energy behind you. I'm thinking about most of the energy statements. Well I think it was just for on the podcast the word failure isn't benefit of mostly loaded term for us."
0:35:07.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"You and I on it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just."
0:35:18.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,Mm-hmm.
0:35:23.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,What are you?
0:35:26.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, it's definitely for me, because I think it's mostly loaded for you even if you don't admit it or maybe especially because you wanted."
0:35:29.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:35:35.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay, it's pretty simple. Okay."
0:35:39.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, yeah, so the, because the thing is it and this is the problem, like I'm not going to let him sale it's."
0:35:49.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Because of myself I've already, I don't wanna be the cost for him to fail."
0:35:55.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well maybe, right so, so here's the, here's, here's my problem with that state. But my concern with that statement, okay there isn't an obviously a bundle with perspective on that hey, I see this problem. This other person has this problem. I don't have this problem. Therefore, I should've asked him my screen to protect that person, right?"
0:36:01.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,Yeah.
0:36:22.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,"No, you're going about the wrong way again."
0:36:26.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Is the number you said? Okay, then I misunderstood you try, try again to explain your position."
0:36:26.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"No, no, no. Alright. I yeah, I keep saying that I don't want to be the cost of your training and you said it's protecting him. No, because I low."
0:36:40.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,So that's an interesting inefficient of love.
0:36:44.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So, so how are you defining using the word contacts?"
0:36:45.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, I see that context Ardy I love you so much. I don't want you to get hurt. I'm not from what I am doing. I don't wanna cut you by doing things."
0:36:53.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Right.
0:36:59.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Because I love you. I don't wanna do things that will help you. Yeah, that's how I look at it."
0:36:59.9 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Sorry, there's a difference."
0:37:04.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Sorry.
0:37:07.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, so but there's like, there's like, what is not what I'm seeing just trusted hurts me more when you say you don't want to hurt me, don't you really mean, I don't want you to hurt yourself in this particular way."
0:37:25.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,I don't wanna be the cost for you to hurt yourself that's the difference. Yeah.
0:37:28.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"In that particular way, okay, so what does that important? Like we've had this happen where we have, like a former, I'll call and come to one of our trip social events and can we start? Okay, let's be careful in order any drinks but then this guy felt hurt that we were making all these extraordinary things like, hey, you know, I'm going to say I won't drink a ton of ten patient that you should just do it right? And he felt hurt that we didn't trust him. And the question is, does that count or I'm deciding well."
0:38:01.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"You know, I know you think that how you think your hurt is different than what I, how I think you're hurt."
0:38:07.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay, that's fine."
0:38:10.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,What is fine?
0:38:11.8 PDT,John Prabhakar,"You can think that way, that's okay. What do you think you're, what you're thinking is right? I'm not gonna change my behavior because of."
0:38:15.5 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"So, the question is, do you."
0:38:22.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Okay. But you can just change your justification, right?"
0:38:22.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Cause I still believe what I'm saying any, yeah, I, I'm still believing what I'm saying, I don't even, I love you so much but I'm not going to do the cost of you to be getting hurt if I can prevent today I don't want to do it. I'm continuing why I'm not really behavior, Ernie, I'm really by behavior, yeah."
0:38:34.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,Hey.
0:38:37.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,We're sorry.
0:38:40.7 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Sir, yes, yes father, but this is, this is precisely, and this is great, this is great audio, anyone whatever, listen to it. Right, this is precisely the tension that I have run into in our relationship in the past in that anymore desire to keep me from being hurt, you end up doing things the hurt me very deeply and that is a paradox that I'm not sure we've yet to resolve."
0:38:45.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Oh, oh, okay."
0:39:12.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"I'm sorry to hear that. Good. I hope you deeply, I'm so sorry to hear that."
0:39:20.2 PDT,John Prabhakar,Just the only.
0:39:20.3 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Thank you father, I feel like we talk through this and so it's kind of interesting that it's come back up again."
0:39:27.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"I think we're talking about three different things here but from what we're talking about, generally speaking personal now. And I think we should stop the podcast to talk about it with you."
0:39:42.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"I thought it was resolved. I thought apparently already she has not resolved. I don't wanna talk about it publicly, no."
0:39:43.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Okay, let's do that."
0:39:46.1 PDT,Ernest Prabhakar,"Well, I thought it was still but yeah, yeah, and, and, okay. Let's try to test it. I'll call you back on the personal line and this is good cause I'm also gonna go back on my trail and pickup all the proof that I left behind, so, so, so, so there's, there's, there's something to be done with so we will deal with that off-line talk to you and talk to you momentarily. That, okay? Bye."
0:39:55.0 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay, okay."
0:39:58.6 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay, good. Okay. Alright. Okay."
0:40:06.4 PDT,John Prabhakar,"Okay. Okay. Okay, ma'am. Bye bye."